tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post2913097595915667139..comments2024-01-13T08:49:14.041-08:00Comments on Myrhaf: The Art of ConversationMyrhafhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-17464634800765856602007-11-14T12:35:00.000-08:002007-11-14T12:35:00.000-08:00Hilarious. I laughed all the way through this. B...Hilarious. I laughed all the way through this. Boy, do I know someone like that -- a coworker. I guess we all do. At first, I tried to be patient with her. Then I thought I'd take the opposite tack, interrupting her as much as she interrupted me. It didn't faze her. Since I've determined that I just can't carry on a pleasant conversation with this woman, I've stopped trying. I avoid her as much as I can.Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10223664599729768316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-80319340328740212682007-11-10T09:18:00.000-08:002007-11-10T09:18:00.000-08:00My week, Ed, is going better than yours, I must ad...My week, Ed, is going better than yours, I must admit.Myrhafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-48948792766225702522007-11-10T07:17:00.000-08:002007-11-10T07:17:00.000-08:00Let's see...I got laid off this week, and a friend...Let's see...I got laid off this week, and a friend of mine died...but enough about me. So Myrhaf, how's your week going?EdMcGonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05892046331126818396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-60600650496565554092007-11-09T22:39:00.000-08:002007-11-09T22:39:00.000-08:00Jim and Betsy, thanks for both of your interesting...Jim and Betsy, thanks for both of your interesting comments. From open loop personalities to the Trader Principle!Myrhafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-14889351185676036982007-11-09T19:00:00.000-08:002007-11-09T19:00:00.000-08:00Myrhaf asked:"This topic would come under ethics, ...Myrhaf asked:<BR/><BR/>"This topic would come under ethics, or perhaps etiquette. (Or is etiquette a category of ethics?)"<BR/><BR/>My friend, philosophy professor Allan G., once told me that Ayn Rand called etiquette "Rationality applied to human relationships." That makes sense and indicates what is wrong with non-stop talker/non-listeners.<BR/><BR/>Rational human relationships are built on the Trader Principle, and the kind of "conversation" you describe certainly provides little or no value to the listener. The talker takes your time and attention and gives you damn little in return.<BR/><BR/>BetsyBetsySpeicherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13546046502690948238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-18366016615088718522007-11-08T19:43:00.000-08:002007-11-08T19:43:00.000-08:00Ah, the infamous "open-loop" personality ("open-lo...Ah, the infamous "open-loop" personality ("open-loop" is an engineering term referring to a control system with no feedback; it lacks a connection to its own effects). I was one of those myself, due in part to ADHD; with a short term memory like quicksand, I tend to want very badly to say something before I forget it. I've learned to control it the hard way -- by experience.<BR/><BR/>People like this do it for a variety of reasons. Many of them are like LA drivers; "it's all about them". It seems as if they live in a state of perpetual surprise that there are other people in the world, and that they also have places to go and something to say. They are not unlike young children in that respect -- except that children eventually wise up to the fact of others, if they are raised right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-28564465293809518442007-11-08T06:52:00.000-08:002007-11-08T06:52:00.000-08:00Myrhaf - no worries - I understand what you are sa...Myrhaf - no worries - I understand what you are saying - conversation is an exchange. We trade information and comments - its like capitalism!. My comment refers to me. I am learning to say less about me and listen more.<BR/><BR/>I referred to the major change I had made in my conversational style and that is to allow someone to tell a story or relate an anecdote without feeling I had to match it (or top it - as you referred to). This is more important when I am speaking to someone who has a different conversational style than I do - less aggressive.<BR/><BR/>Like most Objectivists, ideas are very important to me so I am only too happy to add my 2 cents in conversations. I have learned to show some restraint.<BR/><BR/>As the boss at work, it is easy for me to be overbearing and that conversational style can spill over to non-work.<BR/><BR/>A very helpful book for me has been What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful by Marshall Goldsmith. The book discusses a number of potential errors and annoyances we make when dealing with co-workers. It can be blunt in portraying our styles and I am learning from it.<BR/><BR/>Thank you again for an excellent post. I appreciate Objectivist perspectives for non-political situations. Politics is such a swamp, that it is a breath of fresh air to leave it.johnnycwesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746767404567772212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-69080814293248804222007-11-07T21:42:00.000-08:002007-11-07T21:42:00.000-08:00Johnny, I don't mean to imply that one can never t...Johnny, I don't mean to imply that one can never talk about oneself -- I do it all the time. The people who irk me are the ones who love to hear themselves talk but never listen in return.Myrhafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-50222293617395255132007-11-07T20:39:00.000-08:002007-11-07T20:39:00.000-08:00I am becoming more selfish in my conversations - I...I am becoming more selfish in my conversations - I speak less and listen more. I learn more and I have better conversations. I try to remember Will Rogers who said:"Never pass up an opportunity to shut up". I have ceased to always counter someone's funny or interesting anecdote with one of my own. Well, most times...<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post and for the reminder - I am going to shut up and listen now.johnnycwesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746767404567772212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-84429465714229070282007-11-07T08:56:00.000-08:002007-11-07T08:56:00.000-08:00David, thanks. Joseph Kellard, thanks for commenti...David, thanks. <BR/><BR/>Joseph Kellard, thanks for commenting. <BR/><BR/>I agree with both of you. <BR/><BR/>Writing about politics get tedious sometimes, especially when the candidates are power-lusting statists. I like to find other things to write about in this blog. This topic would come under ethics, or perhaps etiquette. (Or is etiquette a category of ethics?)Myrhafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-28155694821916503282007-11-07T04:20:00.000-08:002007-11-07T04:20:00.000-08:00Hello Myrhaf,This is my first time posting on your...Hello Myrhaf,<BR/><BR/>This is my first time posting on your site. This issue you raise has long been, and will continue to be, a "pet peeve" of mine. <BR/><BR/>I find that coworkers are those who are guilty of this the most. I've had a few that would go on and on about their daily experiences, and never think, when they are finally done exhaling, to ask you: "So how was your weekend?" And some of them, when you do talk, take little to no interest in what you are saying. <BR/><BR/>When I notice this in people, I talk less and less to them on a social level, some to the point that I stop talking to them completely. <BR/><BR/>If a person cares about another person, they will listen to them when they talk, and they should expect that this person, who has a self-interest in having a good relationship with the person (coworker, friend, lover, etc.) would do well to learn to listen to the person. When people don't listen back, when they show no interest in asking you how your day or life is going, then they are people who have no fundamental self-interest in you. Instead, your at best, esp. if you're a good listener, a convenient sound board for them, a warm body who generously lends an ear and perhaps gives good advice. <BR/><BR/>The blabbers who hardly or never listen to others are not selfish, they’re self-consumed, not realizing that rational, healthy relationships on any level are give-and-take, and if the person who always finds himself listening and never listened to, then if they have a sense of justice and self-respect, they’ll increasingly shun this person on a personal level. <BR/><BR/>That’s my off-the-cuff response.<BR/><BR/>Joseph KellardJoseph Kellardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05792444138935346026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-86591259976712940052007-11-06T20:53:00.000-08:002007-11-06T20:53:00.000-08:00I understand what you're saying, and it has bounce...I understand what you're saying, and it has bounced around in my head for a long time, too.<BR/><BR/>I think the key here is sensitivity to other people's reactions -- taking non-verbal cues when engaged in conversation so that you can understand when you have crossed a line into "boring" or "socially retarded." <BR/><BR/>The virtue of selfishness is always correct -- but must not be misinterpreted to mean "selfish AT THE EXPENSE of others." And in the case of non-stop jabberers who blabber on about themselves, they are being selfish -- but at the expense of others (in terms of time, civility, etc).<BR/><BR/>Good post.davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09102807342521013650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-27296469656506247972007-11-06T18:28:00.000-08:002007-11-06T18:28:00.000-08:00SM, my fellow actor, you're one of my favorite peo...SM, my fellow actor, you're one of my favorite people to talk to, so you must be doing something right. I think stream of consciousness is fine for short statements. Otherwise you might censor everything you say. You bring up the elements of fiction, which is good if you're telling a story, unless it is labored. It would be better if it seems spontaneous -- same with acting!Myrhafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340507405537605164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19129587.post-28585295636787999332007-11-06T17:16:00.000-08:002007-11-06T17:16:00.000-08:00Yes, I think the key is being entertaining. And, a...Yes, I think the key is being entertaining. And, as with fiction, that often requires a good beginning, middle, and end, including a strong climax. No mundane, irrelevant details. Stream of consciousness usually doesn't work. If not then they should let the other person speak. <BR/><BR/>-SM (Your friend from the festival, Cyrano, and the Grove) :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com